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Discussion for comic for 2025-05-02 (Friday) ✣ .
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37, let the untested weapon mayhem begin! Hoo Rah, for live fire weapons testing at full power! Dperra.sr (talk) 11:44, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
Pure Speculation: Just to bring us full circle... I give you, the origin of The Other. Timey Wimey... DLcygnet (talk) 15:27, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
- In that case the events around the "kidnap" of Lucrezia, the damage to Castle Heterodyne, Rober Heterodynes time experiment's and Klaus's use of the take 5 devise are all related. The Castle destruction is the result of the Dreen Sealing the rift that opened in a weakened section of the space/time continuum created by Rober Heterodynes time experiments. Lucrezia's work opened that rift in the weakened section of the Space/time barrier. The Dreen closed the rift because it was not the "right time" for the monster to come through. The battle damaged the castle and Lucrezia got pulled into the rift as a collateral causality. Dperra.sr (talk) 18:58, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
- Could it be the Winslow? It is extruded now into a sort of horizontal shape. The front appendages, in particular, look about right. We know the Winslow is extra-dimensional; it would be surprising to our heroes; and it seems appropriate for this creature's role to be not that of the Other, but important in a different way. Mskala (talk) 11:30, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
- wheeeel.... since you bring it up . . . I was just doing another read-through and got to the hidden temple scene, and several new things jumped out at me. I've stated my previous conviction that M. Eyeball (sometimes called "Eye Guy") was in fact Madwa, supported by Lady Steelgarter's familiarity with them, the presence of the messenger dingbot in Snackleford's lab, and the presence of the modified version of Lucrezia's summoning engine in the ancient temple. Add to that Vapnoople's awareness that Lucrezia was the Other (I can come back with citations for all these if folks want them), Lucrezia's facility with mental transfer, and Albia's observation that pre-Other Lucrezia's mind wasn't shattered in the way that Ancient Regicide Lucrezia's was. I think it's possible that Lucrezia attempted to meddle with "blasphemous energies" not by, as Snackleford did, "downloading" the knowledge/energy of the extradimensional being to himself, but rather by "uploading" her own consciousness into an extra-dimensional monster, then leaving behind the summoning engines in the Chapel to recall it. Now notably there's a lot of unconnected dots in this theory, but there's most definitely *something* to the extradimensional summoning and its connection to Queens, Jägers, upwellings, flames, summonings, mirrors, and the rest. MTBinDurham (talk) 19:35, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, exactly, the "great work" wasn't just the cultists in the temple, it was a whole project that was part of a means of restoring Lucrezia. Madwa's faction was manipulating the cultists to carry out experiments for them. That's how the video message dingbot ended up with Snackleford—from Monahan via Madwa. (And stop calling the person "Eye Guy" when you don't know it's a guy.) That's how Snackleford had a Lucrezia-style summoning engine. Madwa also had Prende's lantern so escaping with Lucrezia's faction of troops after the battle of the Queens would be trivial, hell she was probably leading them. The eye looks like Madwa's (and not like any other character who could have been there). She was known to be in Londonium. She's shown back in Londonium with Steelgarter immediately before the big party. I've got a lot of conjectures I'm really shaky on but I'm about 99% sure M. Eyeball was Madwa, and I don't even think it's intended to be much of a secret anymore at this point in the comic. MTBinDurham (talk) 21:27, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
- If Madwa as in the lab with the Lantern during the Battle of Queens. What would have kept her from using the Lantern to help Lucrezia capture Agatha? Lucrezia's only objective for the lab incursion was the capture of Agatha. Madwa would have known that and would have been able to freeze the main combatants to allow Agatha to be captured. Eye Guy or Person may or may not have been Shackelford but is not Madwa. Dperra.sr (talk) 22:13, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, that's a strong indication she wasn't in the lab, but was probably coordinating the arrival of other wasped forces ✣ . At several points, one of the Lucrezia aspects likely ordered Madwa to stay back, probably assuming she wouldn't have any trouble once four subs full of her wasped forces arrived. I'd say go back and read the comic starting from the hijacked sub's high speed arrival at Londonium through Albia's grand party holding in mind that 1) Madwa infiltrates the lab and is operating there in secret, 2) that Snackleford has created the cult and the summoning equipment in part with the help of Madwa's faction, and 3) (this one I'm far more uncertain about) that Vapnoople may have been involved with Lucrezia's transfers/mind shattering/becoming the Other. Pre-Kjarl Vapnoople mumbles about having created monsters. Was Lucrezia as The Other one of them? At any rate, if you do that re-reading, I think you'll find that the Madwa/Snackleford/Monahan angle loops in a lot of loose ends dropped in the narrative through that period that seemed really haphazard when the comic was coming out in real time. MTBinDurham (talk) 23:09, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
- "One of Lucrezia's Aspects?" Aside from Zola and Agatha we have not seen another aspect of Lucrezia in the timeline of this story. Yes, we have seen other aspects in flashbacks and the "Muse of time," was probably an aspect of Lucrezia, and Lucrezia talked about creating other aspects, but we have never seen any aspect but the three I mentioned. Of those three only the clank version was in full control. The aspect in Zola was under Zola's control and Agatha's aspect was mostly under Agatha's control. I think Lucrezia's personality would likely preclude creating multiple concurrent versions that would be allowed to run free lest they get ideas of their own about how to conduct the "war". Lucrezia would know that any copies made would ultimately end up in conflict with other copies which would undermine her goals. Think about Shackelford's first act after he ascended. Lucrezia as a god queen would not tolerate rivels even if those rivels were copies when / if Lucrezia were to create another copy the previous vessel would need to be destroyed. Dperra.sr (talk) 23:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
- Um, the Anevka clank with Lucrezia in it was right there the whole time in the undersea fight between Trelawney/Albia and Agatha/Lucrezia. Also, Lucrezia multiple times in the story has tried to duplicate herself so two aspects could work concurrently, first in Stormhalten. Seriously, I encourage you to go re-read the comic pages in question with an "eye" toward if this really could work. MTBinDurham (talk) 23:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
- The copy made in Stormhalten from Agatha to the Clank was the only successful transfer that did not have complications. The transfer to the Clank was a failsafe in case Agatha regained control and the Lady Vrin was instructed to kill Agatha if Agatha regained control. Then in Lucrezia's lab under Castle Heterodyne Lucrezia wanted to transfer to Zola and kill Agatha because Agatha was becoming too strong to control but after Zola explains an attempt to transfer into an unwilling Zola would be unsuccessful Lucrezia agreed to allow Zola to have a non-controlling copy. There is a track record of Lucrezia only wanting a single copy out in the world. The only other attempt to transfer we see is to Monahan and that transfer mechanism was installed with Monahans assistance. I think building the Transfer mechanism requires the spark and the Clank does not have the spark. Dperra.sr (talk) 02:27, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
- I strongly disagree with your interpretation that Lucrezia wants to be a single copy, but we've strayed from the point of importance. The Anevka version of Lucrezia was quite clearly in charge of the assault on the dome and issuing commands to wasped soldiers. Do you find it curious that the troops were already on their way to the dome? That they found Agatha and the Lucrezia-removal device quickly after arriving? That despite all the cultists being dead and there being no staff on board except the kitchen staff, that they docked easily and unloaded quickly? Almost seems like there was a stealth agent at work. Which again, to return to Madwa's presence, you'll notice that M. Eyeball knows the intimate details of Lady Steelgarter's attempt to return to Skiffander using the mirrors. How many cultists do you think knew about all of that? Hippocrates Brunel did, and come to think of it, he shares, well, some rather Vapnoople-like opinions on world order. ✣ There is exactly one person who could have been in the dome at that time and had time to leave after, would know all these details, be able to hide with ease in the midst of the dome, could coordinate the landing of the troop subs, and have the exact art style around the eyes as M. Eyeball ✣ . It's Madwa. And the implications of her being there and coordinating with Snackleford opens up some really implications for the plot and the connections between Lucrezia and Snackleford. MTBinDurham (talk) 12:24, 7 May 2025 (UTC)