Discussion for comic for 2021-08-30 (Monday) ✣ .
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Interesting flashbacks today. That's probably Barry in Panel 2 rescuing Tiny Agatha - wrong build for Bill, although there's no goggles. There's a Mirror in Panel 5, although it leads to sky and mountains, which may not line up with what we've heard (assumed?) about the Gateway to the Shadow World and its destruction ✣ . Zibbiz (talk) 05:18, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Lucrezia built those mirrors? Did she build all the mirrors? Bkharvey (talk) 05:31, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- The hair of our mystery man in panel 2 is the same a Gil's in panel 1. I suspect that future Gil (with Tarvek tailoring it) creates a timetravel jacket to save Tiny Agatha. Ucalibur (talk) 07:45, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- I like this theory, but Phil has a tendency to draw everyone's hair the same. That said, if it is Gil, there's a nice synchronicity with another man with angry eyes, escaping with a baby. ✣ Zibbiz (talk) 19:03, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- It's not true that you can't people apart by hair, even in silhouette. Sparks do have wilder hair (e.g. Agatha's cowlick), but I think you could easily tell, say, Tarvek's from Bill's. It's just that in this case, Gil and Barry have similar mops. Also, in Agatha's memories, Barry wears that hat. ⚙Zarchne (talk) 20:17, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Further support: I've looked around and not found a picture of Barry with a gauge/clock on his shoulder, but Gil wears one (e.g., 2011-06-15 (Wednesday) ✣ ) albeit on the other shoulder. And the silhouette of Barry has him in glasses (or goggles) as Zibbiz said. Build mismatch could be explained by foreshortening due to running, but that opens Bill up again. Bill doesn't wear the gauge either, though. And don't forget that Gil buffs up ✣ at some point. ⚙Zarchne (talk) 20:02, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- This is a wild idea (and very likely wrong) but the build is right. The clock's on the wrong and there is no hair. BUT...the Red Heterodyne? ✣ . Naah! Really just the build and clock made me think of this and look it up. Fred1740 (talk) 23:51, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think it looks like Klaus. And, once upon a time, we know that Klaus grabbed a child, & jumped through a Queen's Mirror. Perhaps Klaus did more or less than he believed he was doing. Bosda Di'Chi 11:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
- I also think it looks like Klaus and there's a little evidence to support it. He still has to do some unknown favor for the Dreen. Klaus also still has to do something that would make Barry, and subsequently Punch and Judy, not trust him; "kidnapping" Bill's daughter seems like a reasonable thing to cause distrust - but then why haven't we gotten a download from the constructs yet? DLcygnet (talk) 19:41, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- Separate mad theory: Bill and Barry were invading the Citadel of Silver Light to rescue Lucrezia and Agatha, but somehow got trapped there when the Priestesses destroyed the gate. Or rather Barry got out, then went back for his brother prior to getting trapped. Bill remained because he was looking for his wife... who was probably unrecognizable in her Muse of Time body and trapped in a Hermitorium at the time. DLcygnet (talk) 19:41, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
- I also think it looks like Klaus and there's a little evidence to support it. He still has to do some unknown favor for the Dreen. Klaus also still has to do something that would make Barry, and subsequently Punch and Judy, not trust him; "kidnapping" Bill's daughter seems like a reasonable thing to cause distrust - but then why haven't we gotten a download from the constructs yet? DLcygnet (talk) 19:41, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm confused about panels 3 and 5. They found Agatha, practically at the beginning of the story! And also, the ones at Sturmhalten didn't talk about a "great and glorious quest"; they said they were being punished for having lost Agatha in the first place. Bkharvey (talk) 05:31, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not sure, but 2005-12-30 (Friday) ✣ does have a quest element: the great battle, we were to protect the child... ⚙Zarchne (talk) 06:44, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
P.S. In the last bubble of Tarvek's speech in panel 2, how does he know about Agatha having been stolen? Just from the current conversation with the Geisters? Because he starts out by rejecting the reliability of their beliefs. Bkharvey (talk) 05:34, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- 1. The Geisters spent years lurking in the basement of his family's castle while searching for Agatha. He's heard all of this first-hand. 2. They lost Agatha again, she's off in England, rather than leading them with Lucrezia's mind installed in her head. 3. Who knows what Lucrezia has been doing while bouncing around in time, but I'd say no, she's just using all the Mirrors built by the Great Ancient Civilization. 4. And yeah, both the comic and the print novels have previously depicted the trip (via Vrin's account) more as being "marched through the gate to Europa at metaphorical gunpoint" rather than a great quest. --Geoduck42 (talk) 06:21, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- So, then, you think they think there's still a reason to search for Agatha? They didn't just find her and lose her again; they installed Lucrezia in her mind, which was the object of the exercise. If they know Lucrezia isn't there any more, they must surely understand that they're not going to be able to capture her again and re-install Lucrezia, not when she's guarded by Jägers and Zeetha and so on. Bkharvey (talk) 06:48, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think what Tarvek is talking about on this page is basically old news, just skewed a little. (I am weaving this page into the book.) The Geisters were given the task of protecting the Child. Vrin says they were created(!) for it. So to the Geisters, the Child is important just because she is. She is their raison d'etre. (Tarvek points out that they didn't know the further purpose, why is she so important to Lucrezia, but which of course is to provide Lucrezia with a more perfect body in which to continue.) Having failed in this fundamental holy task of protection, they are "punished" (after a period when the Goddess is absent and they recover from the lost battle) by being sent here to quest for her. So it is a punishment for failure, but it is also a continuation of their basic purpose. A way to interpret Tarvek is that the whole idea of the Child being the center of their existence is false. After all, the Geisters would have said that they were doing their holy duty to search for the child. "Punishment" and "great and glorious quest" are not mutually exclusive. ⚙Zarchne (talk) 07:28, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Originally, anyway, the Geisters only know the Child is important, but not why. Once they are here, they have to be given the information to complete the installation. Then I suggest a split happens: most of them accept that the Goddess is Right (or don't know the plan) and the thing to do is carry out the copying of the Goddess into the Child's body. Milvistle and company realize that the "Goddess" is just a person like them with better tech, and refuse to participate... After all, they are protecting the Child (albeit from her own mother). ⚙Zarchne (talk) 07:41, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Zola, of course, is not actually Lucrezia, and has no use for Agatha. Therefore, either of the above groups would refuse to follow Zola once they understand the situation. Milvistle did help set Zola up... but I would say that was to attack Lucrezia, not help kill Agatha. And these Geisters with Othar were probably from the larger (Vrin) faction. You might think that as long as Lucrezia is installed in Agatha, (which you'd expect they'd have heard of? and they shouldn't have had time to learn she was removed?) they would go after her, but clearly the Goddess isn't in charge there and they wouldn't know about the locket to try to remove it, etc. So it seems this group with Othar might think it's worth trying to restore the Goddess' control of the Child, but what he says is that they have given up (for now?) trying to serve the Goddess and have in effect gone over to Milvistle's side of serving (protecting) the Child herself (which is supposedly, after all, what they were made for). (It occurs to me that this sounds a little like Otilia's problem of how to "protect" Agatha.) They're not necessarily recognizing that Lucrezia is not a Goddess, though. So yeah, it could backfire. ⚙Zarchne (talk) 08:18, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Just throwing in my thought here. Mechanicsburg and The Heterodynes originally had something to do with Lucrezia's original plot. She married Bill Heterodyne and conceived/manipulated the birth of a daughter (Heterodyne Princess) she could inhabit. The Castle would accept and obey her then. The "attack' on the Castle is where something went horribly wrong for Lucrezia. Fred1740 (talk) 10:03, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
RPG content?[]
The RPG is finally out! (Hurray!) It's still in pre-release! (Oh no!) "This is a prerelease PDF! A hardback with a comic in it may follow, initially via Kickstarter; to be notified on launch, click the "notify me on launch" button on this page. If the comic stretch goal is unlocked, and after any minor fixes are made to the project's master files, we'll update the PDF." Should we hold off on adding content to the wiki from the RPG book until it's finalized, or should we trust that any changes will be minor? Zibbiz (talk) 18:54, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- I suggest that we call a moratorium on adding any previously unrevealed information from the RPG PDF prerelease to this wiki until after the Kickstarter for the print edition of the RPG has ended. (I realize that the start of this Kickstarter hasn't been announced yet, but an announcement should be made before too much longer.) I suggest this for the reason mentioned above, to make sure that the information we are referring to has had a chance to be corrected/updated, and for two other reasons:
- To allow people more time to find out that the RPG is available in prerelease (PDF) or final (PDF and, potentially, print) form, so we avoid revealing unwelcome spoilers too early.
- To encourage people to participate in the RPG Kickstarter by not revealing any exclusive new information before the end of the Girl Genius RPG Kickstarter.
- I welcome any expressions of alternative points of view on both of these suggestions. -- 🔧William Ansley (talk) 23:08, 31 August 2021 (UTC)