Forum:2020-07-31 (Friday)

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Discussion for comic for 2020-07-31 (Friday) ✣ .

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Boy, that Orotine sure is sneaky. Bkharvey (talk) 04:58, July 31, 2020 (UTC)

I wonder who's fault that is, Orotine's or Van Rjin's.  That Orotine did not take that into her calculations. (which may be why Tarvek suggested Orotine talk to Gil, that Tarvek saw Orotine's knowledge of the son of Klaus was incomplete.) Doug Relyea (talk) 05:07, July 31, 2020 (UTC)

(My previous post was meant as an announcement about the availability of the page, not actually a comment on Orotine...)  The last time we saw Tarvek, he was drinking with Gil, and was dragged off by Trelawney.  So it's not 100% certain that he's up to anything.  I guess it depends how many dances have happened since then, and whether he's still on the dance floor.  Unless what he's up to is getting Gil to see that he trusts him!  But no, I think that was settled long ago.  By the way, Gil's hand on Orotine's chin is a remarkably oily sexist gesture, like Frank Sinatra or someone like that.  [Rereading what I wrote before, I discovered an anti-Italian stereotype, for which I apologize.]  I do think that "What if I'm actually bad for her" pushes the limits of willing suspension of disbelief.  Did Albia slip something in his drink, or something?  Bkharvey (talk) 05:17, July 31, 2020 (UTC)

Tarvek NOT up to something? Then he's not breathing.  This doesn't mean what he's up to is necessarily bad for Gil or Agatha, just that I feel he's not about to change his spots.

As far as Tarvek not dancing with Agatha, he explained that to Violetta.  He wants to see who else does.  Meaning who else may be trying to control The Heterodyne.

Yes, that did seem a bit out of character for Gil, the hand on the chin. I think the "What if I'm actually bad for her" could be a remnant of the Klaus overlay. Doug Relyea (talk) 06:56, July 31, 2020 (UTC)

Oh, of course Tarvek is six deep in plans.  This is, among other things, what Gil values in him.  ("I just hope you're sneaky enough.")  But even apart from his multiple kidnappings, he is often more or less at the mercy of events (which is why he had to learn intrigue), and all I meant is that being dragged away from Gil by Trelawney could just be one of those times. Bkharvey (talk) 07:53, July 31, 2020 (UTC)

"what if I'm actually bad for her?" Much has changed since Gil first met Agatha ✣ . Things are different even from their time in Mechanicsburg. She is clearly an important person at Albia's party. She is Lady Heterodyne, a noble lady and head of state. This is a new perspective for Gil. This involves more than romance, as Violetta explained to Tarvek ✣ . --Fred1740 (talk) 10:54, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

Whenever the Foglios post a page like this I wonder if at least part of the reason is to refresh the memories of their readers (<grin>less dedicated, knowledgable, worthy readers than us, of course</grin>) on the relationships among the characters. Gil's hand on Orotine's chin and his expression in panel 7 is a bit jarring, but can it properly be called a sexist gesture? I suppose it can, because Orotine is obviously designed to resemble an attractive young woman (albeit with an odd and oddly mutable profile - I wonder if her lack of a nose is at least partly inspired by manga/anime artistic conventions), but she is actually a machine, so perhaps it is really an "organicist" gesture. (By "organicist" - I'm sure there is a much better term - I mean a feeling of superiority based on the fact that you are a real, live human being and not just a mechanism.) There is also the fact that Gil is a Spark and he seems to feel that his fellow Spark, Tarvek, has just put one over on Orotine. -- William Ansley (talk) 19:08, July 31, 2020 (UTC)

I'm not convinced.  The way you act out feeling superior to someone is, e.g., to pat them on the head.  The hand on chin expresses a feeling of ownership: Your purpose is to look beautiful for me.  It doesn't matter if you're Hedy Lamarr and co-invented spread spectrum radio, your purpose still is to look good. Bkharvey (talk) 02:43, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

I think Gils wondering if he is bad for Agatha might be his reaction to watching the circus show. Perhaps Albia's interference w the plot wasnt just for Agatha but to influence Tarvek and Gil. If she can convince them that she is better off without them the result is basicalky the same as Agatha deciding she doesnt want them. Lapointdm (talk) 00:20, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

Gil should realize if he cares enough about Agatha to wonder if he's good for her that means he probably is good for her. Orotine hasnt given him any actual advice unless its rather hidden advice. Pointing out that Rakethorn danced with Agatha twice might be a very offhand way to point out Gil's only danced w Agatha once and danced twice w Trewlawney. Lapointdm (talk) 00:20, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

I think its funny that at this ball we have Albia up to something which seems to be separating Agatha from the guys but why is still not known. Martellus is apparently up to something according to Krosp also unknown. Tarvek is up to sonething which appears to be watching who talks to Agatha but its probably more than that. Lastly we have Agatha up to some sort of surprise or prank. Very few people here seem to be up to nothing except for Gil and Zeetha. Lapointdm (talk) 00:20, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

We know exactly why Albia's doing this, she wants to add Agatha to her "garden", and in order to do that she needs to cut her off from Gil and Tarvek. --Geoduck42 (talk) 03:04, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

But we still dont know what having Agatha in the garden means, and why does Albia want Agatha and not the two guys as well? Ive been thinking of Tarvek's gosls as well and besides learning more about who wants to talk with Agatha perhaps he is waiting to make a grand romantic gesture at the end of the evening, and leave the last best impression of the w Agatha. That would be much smarter than how Gil is handling the evening. Lapointdm (talk) 11:42, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

in regards to Tarvek, if he is just checking out who wants to talk to Agatha that doesnt seem to be so important for him to ignore Agatha or Orotine. Perhaps Tarvek is actually trying to understand Albias true motives and is therefore in a game against Albia hersrlf bc he realizes she is not being entirely sincere w Agatha and perhaps Gil. Im leading toward the earlier hypothesis that Martellus is up to messing with Krosp perhaps by msking Floozy the Empress of all cats. That fits into the overall storyarc of kings and wueens as well. In regards to what Albia is up to I think the garden is perhaps a power source or someyhing where Albia needs something out of femsle soarks and msle spatks just csnt provide it. Perhaps it relates to what makes Queens. 01:08, August 4, 2020 (UTC)

On Monday's page, Agatha addresses her dance partner as Doctor Rakethorn and he doesn't say, "Oh, please, call me Hadrian," which you think he would if he was trying to get on a more familiar basis with her. Then on Friday's page, Orotine names Tarvek and Tweedle by their full names, but again Rakethorn is referred to by his title and last name. I wonder if the Foglios have forgotten what they gave him for a first name or that even they gave him a first name at all. -- William Ansley (talk) 21:06, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

An Englishman, interacting with an eligable girl he's essentially only just met, asking her to use his first name? Please sir, show some decorum! --Geoduck42 (talk) 01:06, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Ah, but the England in Girl Genius seems to be a bit different in its rules for acceptable behavior ✣ than our England. -- William Ansley (talk) 18:28, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Hmpf.  Sleipnir is just untraveled and xenophobic.  The relevant page is this one ✣ . (But I could believe they've forgotten his name.) Bkharvey (talk) 00:03, August 3, 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps you're right about Sleipner. Certainly, if the Foglios ever intended her statement to be a true indication of the state of affairs in the Girl Genius version of England, that intention has fallen by the wayside since those long-ago days of May 2003. We have seen no half-naked English people running about, with the exception of Albia herself at times. ✣ -- William Ansley (talk) 03:50, August 3, 2020 (UTC)

Ive been giving some more thought to Orotine lately. Didnt the comic state all of the muses were lost? If Orotine has been in England it seems likely that someone at court would have reported her presence. Has she been in hiding all of these decades? Is she even realky Orotine? Could Albia have made her from scratch or altered her to do her bidding? She seems far to cozy with Albia and appears to know she was meant as a distraction for Tarvek which as a muse she should not want to distract a frontrunner for the stormking. It does not seem like she can be trusted at all. I wish we could see her and Prende meet to see if she is the real deal.Lapointdm (talk) 00:50, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

It was put forth by Master Payne first panel, 2nd row ✣ that most were dismantled. ( As of now, it appears most ARE NOT dismantled, and only the unnamed Muse of Vengeance is not complete.)

I expect the Muses can be manipulated just like her Human subjects by Albia. Some power or ability allowed the Heterodynes to chain-up Otilia until Lucrezia found her in some forgotten hallway in Castle Heterodyne. Doug Relyea (talk) 01:42, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

I don't think the Muse of Vengeance is one of the set. And either the dismantled rumors were incorrect or they were later mantled—something a god-queen could arrange, or some proficient sparks. Argadi (talk) 03:16, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, it's my prediction that every last one of them is going to turn out to have survived somehow. --Geoduck42 (talk) 05:08, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

The dismantlement story is clearly part of the Muses' efforts at hiding themselves.  In retrospect, why would anyone dismantle a Muse?  A much better alternative would be to sell her to the highest bidder.  What I hope is that either Tarvek or the other Muses are able to repair Tinka.  Bkharvey (talk) 07:22, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

And repair Otilia and Prende. --Fred1740 (talk) 10:24, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

You have ask why Sparks would dismantle something valuable instead of selling it? --Geoduck42 (talk) 14:42, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I see. To me "dismantle" suggests "prepare for disposal." Trying to find out how they work would more be "disassemble" or something. But you're right, if they fell into the hands of sparks they might well end up in pieces. Bkharvey (talk) 23:53, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Geoduck42, the rest will be revealed as functional, somewhere. As to dismantling, Master Payne put forth that everyone wanted to study them.  Only two people appear so far to have been able to replicate Van Rjin's work. Tarvek with building Anevka, and the unnamed Heterodyne who built the 11 deadly sins in the future story Ivo Sharktooth. Doug Relyea (talk) 12:14, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

I don't think the Sins count.  The Muses have some sort of wisdom; if they can't see the actual future they can at least see probable consequences of current behaviors.  All the Sins do is kill people.  They're more like Gil's fencing machine.  Bkharvey (talk) 23:53, August 2, 2020 (UTC)