Forums: Index > Page-by-Page > 2009-08-21 (Friday)
Discussion for comic for 2009-08-21 (Friday) ✣ .
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LOL! The sparky-ness is contagious. Also, do we now have enough info to make a full article on Hogfarb's Resplendent Immolation and it sounds like Tarvek and Gil were in the same class in college in Paris. -- Axi 02:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- Y'know, this reaction of Tarvek's occurred to me, but I dismissed it as being improbable. Silly me. :D I still say he's out of his head due to the illness (though this is different from his usual state how?) In any case, I bow to the Profs. Foglio for their ability to make the highly improbable seem like the obvious. ;) Nekokami 06:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- It's not clear to me that Tarvek is in the condition to look at the big picture. Even if he was, it isn't clear that the "death" during a medical procedure would be disqualifying under the standard fifty families succession rules. And even if it did preclude standard succession, being Storm King isn't part of the standard noble succession and it isn't clear that someone would survive bringing up that objection if Tarvek/Zola were publicly announced as Storm King and Heterodyne Heir. Argadi 15:52, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- Ah. The problems of making a joke too subtle. --Rej
- On the matter of the title of Storm King, there will be a question after the procedure. If Gil and Tarvek are linked by the SVV procedure will the legendary title be linked to both of them as well. One of Gil's purposes is to position himself to fulfill the legend when he marries Agatha. Consider the style and risk he took in defeating the Knights of Jove. --Rej¿¤¤? 16:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- What makes you think saving Tarvek's life would entitle Gil to share the title?Thanos007 17:03, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- What do you mean 'one of Gil's purposes'? He didn't make the lightning generators because of some attempt to claim the legend for himself - he'd been messing around with electricity for months before anyway. He used that because it was the tool at hand. He didn't even think of the legend until after he got to Mechanicsburg. And he couldn't care a whit for who Agatha's ancestors were if she's the right woman for him, so... 'purpose'? -- Corgi 08:35, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- What comic are you thinking of when you say that Gil didn't think of the legend before arriving at Mechanicsburg? I don't remember a statement from Gil on that topic. (And it's also possible he was lying when and had been thinking about the legend.) Argadi 10:26, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- Well, there's no indication that he was. The lightning generator was basically a toy until Agatha turned it into a weapon, although I do think that the methods of charging it, first with a "Heterodyne device" and then with atmospheric concentrators on Mechancisburg's walls, can be treated as symbolic Storm King/Heterodyne unions (with Gil as the Storm King, of course). When it does occur to him ✣ that someone else is planning to use the story ✣ , his surprise seems like that of someone who's just made a connection for the first time, not someone who thinks somebody is horning in on his own scheme. We get enough scenes following Gil and his perspective -- and of his explaining things or having them explained to him -- that if he were actively plotting to set himself up as the Storm King, I think he would have said something by now. Plus, despite his extraordinary competence in many areas, Gil still retains the tendency to have comedic misconceptions cluster around him; being proclaimed the Storm King when he wasn't deliberately setting it up would be a suitable turnaround of that. This is not, of course, to say he won't play it up for real in the end, just as he did with the "show. ✣ " Could be useful. PersephoneKore 16:18, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- So, I thought they were no longer linking Tarvek and Gil through the SVV process, but linking Tarvek to a rat or mimmoth or the Winslow something like that (Note how I'm avoiding a joke here). That's what they said last page ✣ and that's what they said this page. I realize that people are rooting to link the 2 so some of the shiney Storm King title can rub off. I feel like the horse is dead and the stick broke. Or am I looking at the wrong nag?-- Axi 20:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- I think you're looking at the wrong horse, yes. They're talking about using one of the Heterodyne torture devices to transfer his mind into some other creature, yes, but that's to keep it from experiencing the rest of the procedure directly. The si vales valeo part is what they don't want him in his body for. :) It's a reanimation technique (apparently with an unusually high failure rate) that seems to involve hooking up two individuals physically and, based on the name at least, trying to bring the medical condition of the corpse into line with that of the practitioner. PersephoneKore 22:43, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- So, I thought they were no longer linking Tarvek and Gil through the SVV process, but linking Tarvek to a rat or mimmoth or the Winslow something like that (Note how I'm avoiding a joke here). That's what they said last page ✣ and that's what they said this page. I realize that people are rooting to link the 2 so some of the shiney Storm King title can rub off. I feel like the horse is dead and the stick broke. Or am I looking at the wrong nag?-- Axi 20:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- Hi, Thanos007. The title is a legendary one. So it is subject to the rules of legend. Have a storyteller tell it your way, Have a lot of peoble listen and believe that's the way it is. Eventually the story becomes legendarily true. It also helps if people want to believe. Tarvek claim to the title is hereditary through his mothers side. Gil's claim is through legend worthy deed. Bringing down the lightning to stop his foes. If he also can claim to share blood with Tarvek then it creates further doubt. Storytellers have to choose between the hospitality of Castle Wulfenbach or Sturmhalten. Whose cause would they help?--Rej 23:50, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- Except the Wulfenbachs haven't bothered with popular opinion and don't really care about popular opinion; that's not where their power comes from. It's only the Conspiracy that's trying to sway the public, because it's easier than dealing with riots. -- Corgi 08:35, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- Well, Klaus hasn't bothered with it and is rather dismissive of the potential utility of the fairy tale. (Even if Lilith accuses him of "playing to the gallery" himself, so I suspect he can put on a pretty good show when he feels like it.) Gil seems to take the dangers of the legend-based conspiracy somewhat more seriously, and I can see him taking advantage of ending up popularly recognized as the Storm King, even though I don't think he's going for it on purpose. PersephoneKore 16:18, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- You may be right. The motivation to give Gil plausability as the fulfillment of the legend is clearly driving both scenes. I prefer to believe, for the moment, the motivation comes from within the characters. The alternative is that the tellers are manipulating their characters like sock puppets. That's how they dispensed with Zola's role when they needed to move on. The story would be more satisfying if the characters provided the motivation. So I prefer to believe that as long as I can. --Rej¿¤¤? 02:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
- There's a considerable difference between setting up and foreshadowing a plot point and "manipulating their characters like sock puppets." I think you're attributing a type of scheming to Gil that strikes me as unlikely based on personality, role in the story, and specifically relevant actions and reactions. PersephoneKore 02:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
- I'm going back to the left margin, tens indents is enough. --Rej
- There's a considerable difference between setting up and foreshadowing a plot point and "manipulating their characters like sock puppets." I think you're attributing a type of scheming to Gil that strikes me as unlikely based on personality, role in the story, and specifically relevant actions and reactions. PersephoneKore 02:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
- You may be right. The motivation to give Gil plausability as the fulfillment of the legend is clearly driving both scenes. I prefer to believe, for the moment, the motivation comes from within the characters. The alternative is that the tellers are manipulating their characters like sock puppets. That's how they dispensed with Zola's role when they needed to move on. The story would be more satisfying if the characters provided the motivation. So I prefer to believe that as long as I can. --Rej¿¤¤? 02:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
- Well, Klaus hasn't bothered with it and is rather dismissive of the potential utility of the fairy tale. (Even if Lilith accuses him of "playing to the gallery" himself, so I suspect he can put on a pretty good show when he feels like it.) Gil seems to take the dangers of the legend-based conspiracy somewhat more seriously, and I can see him taking advantage of ending up popularly recognized as the Storm King, even though I don't think he's going for it on purpose. PersephoneKore 16:18, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- Except the Wulfenbachs haven't bothered with popular opinion and don't really care about popular opinion; that's not where their power comes from. It's only the Conspiracy that's trying to sway the public, because it's easier than dealing with riots. -- Corgi 08:35, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- Hi, Thanos007. The title is a legendary one. So it is subject to the rules of legend. Have a storyteller tell it your way, Have a lot of peoble listen and believe that's the way it is. Eventually the story becomes legendarily true. It also helps if people want to believe. Tarvek claim to the title is hereditary through his mothers side. Gil's claim is through legend worthy deed. Bringing down the lightning to stop his foes. If he also can claim to share blood with Tarvek then it creates further doubt. Storytellers have to choose between the hospitality of Castle Wulfenbach or Sturmhalten. Whose cause would they help?--Rej 23:50, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Maybe. Gil is a character who's role is to be underestimated. Bang, Vole, Agatha and even ourselves (I never expected him to flip Merlot's Gundam clank) have underestimated him. He is much sneakier than anyone in the story will credit him. He knew of Wooster's game and never let on. Had Wooster fooled. He hid his identity from Tarvek so well, Tarvek thought he had never met Gilgamesh Wulfenbach. Even though he recognized Gil's voice later. Furthermore, all's fair in love and war. So using the legend to make it more possible to win at both is entirely within my assessment of Gil's strengths. On the other hand different opinions are what make horse races fun. Let's see if future canon proves one of us right. --Rej¿¤¤? 01:44, 26 August 2009 (UTC)