Forum:2008-11-14 (Friday)

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Discussion for comic for 2008-11-14 (Friday) ✣ .

So, I assume it's Agatha's voice at the end of today's comic, but Girl Genius doesn't always take the linear and expected path. Who else could it be?

My favorite two candidates are Othar and Klaus. Argadi 12:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

hmm, seems like the one speaking is surprised to see gil - that would rule out agatha. klaus is probably still at the hospital and othar would have already attacked. so maybe zola or one of the prisoners who knows gil from before? Finn MacCool 13:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I concur that it would seem to have to be Zola or a prisoner previously unknown to know Gil. I don't think Klaus nor Othar would call him "Gil". Although it could be Agatha's anger that is causing them to recoil, it could also be that, say, Snapper was acquainted with Gil at some point. ⚙Zarchne 17:34, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Building on my earlier supposition that Tarvek is actually making a serious play to fulfill his "destiny" of ruling Europa as the Storm King, and has been manipulating all these events in an effort to get Agatha to marry him, one of the primary qualifications of the fake "Heterodyne heir" he sent would probably be to have known, and possibly been romantically involved with, Gilgamesh Wulfenbach while he was studying in Paris. It fits together fairly well, given that Tarvek couldn't possibly have missed Agatha's feelings for Gil after she confessed them at Prince Aaronev's dinner party. Tarvek has already not only displayed a total ruthlessness in manipulating events to get what he wants, but also a tendency to do so in an excessively theatrical, even operatic, way. Not to mention his skill at telling blatant lies without the slightest hint of insincerity or shame, even when injured and caught in another lie. His plot is to seduce Agatha while Gil is distracted and/or seduced by an agent he already has in Castle Heterodyne (almost certainly Zola). If nothing else, it will further drive the wedge between Agatha and Gil, and (Tarvek hopes) split them apart completely. Then he plays his noble act, standing by Agatha after even Gil has betrayed her, and presto! Tarvek fulfills his destiny as Storm King, and gets to rule Europa!

Agatha will probably have other ideas when she finds out this was his plan all along, but then Tarvek probably has his own plans to dispose of Agatha as soon as she becomes a nuisance.Tatter D 20:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

though the seduction theory may not be completely wrong, i don't think the (original) plan involved driving a wedge between agatha and gil, since zola seems to have been in training for quite a while and tarvek doesn't know agatha but for a few days Finn MacCool 21:23, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

If Tarvek et al. had Zola in training for a long time, wasn't Tarvek's plan (a) to marry Zola, uniting the Storm King and the Heterodyne heir? If Tarvek is playing for Agatha now, that's either (b) a hedge in case Zola gets beat by the Castle/the Wulfenbachs/Agatha or (c) true love in which Tarvek realizes that a lifetime with Agatha is far better than one with Zola?

I figure that Tarvek's current scheme now (d) now includes drawing Gil in close ✣ and then getting him killed. --DryBrook

My guess is that the original plan was to marry Zola, but he'd much rather have the real thing. Not because he especially has any feelings for Agatha, but because it suits both his plans and his vanity. Agatha is a real Heterodyne, which makes his claim to the Storm King even more real. I also suspect Tarvek may like Agatha, but isn't in love with her. Not like Gil is, anyway. --mnenyver 21:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Depends on how many "Heterodyne heirs" Tarvek might have had in training. It's certain the entire Sturmvoraus family knew the true "Heterodyne heir" would be female, as public records showed Klaus Barry was dead, and that would leave the "Holy Child" that the Geisters and Prince Aaronev were searching for. However, Tarvek would be foolish in the extreme to not have at least one backup "Heterodyne heir," if not a decently wide selection that had spent a few years of their training abroad, getting as familiar as possible with any of the other big powers in Europa, the better to help smooth over any bumps in the road to installing him as the new Storm King. Of course, Prince Tarvek wouldn't be risking his own life and limb if he hadn't already had his original plans shot down, but also Plans B through Z and was now well into the double letters.

But then, who can really say at this point? If the Foglios wanted to, they could say Gil's mother (from the Island of the Monkey Girls) is in Castle Heterodyne and has just accosted him; we won't know for sure till next Monday. Still, it's fun to speculate as if the story had some sort of internal logic to it, not to mention the fact that anyone assumes there's any sort of logic to the plot beyond "Phil and Kaja said so" is one sign of great storytelling. Tatter D 22:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Any possibility that this could be long enough post-busted-jaw for the speaker to be Bang? I'd still wager on either Agatha or Othar, but she'd be an interesting complication (that's the polite word) in the story. -- that old bearded guy 02:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I haven't completely accepted Tarvek's true nature, but I say, if it is Zola, it's despite her relationship with Tarvek. I buy that if Selnikov didn't know about Klaus having a capable son, few others in the "Storm King" conspiracy did either.

It being Crazy Theory Friday, on the list people have guessed:

• Klaus
• Gil's mom/Klaus' wife
• Punch
• Dr. Sun
• Othar, friendly, astride a FuSMAaDD
• Sanaa Wilhelm
• "any of the other Wulfenbach Kids"
  • a student who would fill Sleipnir and Theo into a triad analogous to Dimo/Maxim/Oggie.
• Agatha after all
• Silas Merlot
• Wooster

which covers just about everyone except the ghost of Therkla. (Oops, wrong comic.)

My current thinking is also that it's another student, although the report is that this is the third-to-last page:

The last page goes up on Wednesday. At which time, we'll swing into our usual end-of-the-year goofiness. So it's going to be a bit of a wait before we see what exactly is about to befall Gil. But I think some of you will very much like the last two pages.

—Promotions, Art, The Near-Future of the Comic

... so any guess that would entail many follow-on pages is ruled in, because this cliff-hanger is set. I'm not sure at the moment which student is most likely. (I still like Snapper, too.)

☺Zarchne 04:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Remember, not only does everyone in the last box looked surprized, but Zeetha has her mouth open. And nobody else has his/her mouth open. Clearly, Zeetha is the most surprized of them all. Seeing as Zeetha is an amazing fighter with lightning-fast reflexes, the only thing that could surprize her would probably someone from skifander/who knows where Skifander is. Not only is this a person who knows about Skifander, but this person knows Gil fairly well. As Zarchne said, to call him Gil implies that this person knows him. Since the chances of this being someone from Skifander are very slim, and the only other people who might have been to Skifander(DuPree whois in no condition to shout (her jaw is broken)) and the Baron (who can't shout much at the moment), this means that it must be Barry Heterodyne, returning at last. Everyone would reconize him from the stories, Zeetha would be astonished at seeing someone who knows about Skifander, and this person would probably not say "Gilgamesh Wulfenbach" after travelling with the Baron for a while. -Cereleste

does zeetha know what barry looks like?

but you got a point about everyone being surprised. apart from agatha this would only leave klaus, zola or someone who's looking really weird, i guess Finn MacCool 11:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I just thought of an interesting way to end the volume: "Gil, is that you?" three times. Friday (and we found out who that is Monday), then Monday (and we see on Wednesday that was Agatha), and then Wednesday (and it's a cliff hanger, only resolved about page 50 into Volume 9—with the first 50 pages covering the actions of various candidates for the cliff hanger voice. Argadi 00:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

"Hyu bazturd! Hyu deed dis." As of vol 9, page 10 ✣ , we can more or less eliminate Klaus, Dr. Sun, Agatha (and party), the ghost of Therkla, Dupree. That leaves in play Klaus's wife, Punch/Judy, Othar, Sanaa Wilhelm, the third wheel of the Sleipnir/Theo/student stool, "any of the other Wulfenbach Kids", Silas Merlot, Wooster, and a prisoner known to Gil.

I think that Othar has got to be the leading candidate at this point, no? --DryBrook 20:09, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd say not. At the time Othar was talking to Klaus ✣ , Gil had already entered the castle. Based on the statement from Higgs, the mysterious voice showed up just after Gil went in the castle. (The first entry in this forum was mine, and I foolishly suggested Klaus and Othar.) Argadi 21:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

If the presentation of the pages indicates internal chronology, that would rule Othar out. However, all we know from what's shown in the panels is that both events (Gil is greeted, Othar arrives at hospital) took place at night. I don't think we can rule Othar out yet. Still, let's look at candidates who would know Gil and could be in the Castle.

1. Othar—Is on familiar terms with Gil; <a>seems to be but is still at the hospital at the time after Klaus said Gil had entered the castle, but is likely headed into the Castle quite soon. (Would produce shocked looks on Gil's crew.)
2. Zola—Probably doesn't know Gil; is in the Castle. (Would produce shocked looks on Gil's crew.)
3. Hristo Tiktoffen—Works for Gil's father, but probably isn't on familiar terms with Gil; is in the Castle working for Zola.
4. other Wulfenbach student—Zulenna Luzhakna, Sun Mingmei, Sun Daiyu, Itto Wheelwright, Nickodeamus Yurkofsky, and Hezekiah Donowitz all know Gil; but why and how would any of them be in the Castle?
5. Von Pinn—Is on familiar terms with Gilgamesh, but she has a distinctive-looking voice, even at the best of times ✣ ; is in the Castle.
6. Sanaa Wilhelm—Probably doesn't know Gil; is in the Castle. (On the meta-side, she'd be a great distraction for Gil if she were a former flame from Paris; something to keep Agatha mad at Gil. Unfortunately, she doesn't match Gil's description of Parisian women, so it's unlikely that she's anyone he met there.)
7. other prisoner—Probably don't know Gil; but are in the castle. On the meta-side, Vasquez and Snapper Boikov were introduced months ago and haven't done much yet.
8. Grantz—Could be on familiar terms with Gil; seems to be at the hospital at the time, but could be headed into the Castle quite soon. (Would produce shocked looks anywhere.)
9. Punch/Judy—Not on familiar terms with Gilgamesh; probably still recovering on Castle Wulfenbach, but would know how to get into the Castle.
10. Silas Merlot—Has met Master Wulfenbach, but wouldn't first-name him, and probably hates him;is in the Castle.
11. Wooster—Calls Master Wulfenbach 'Sir'; was left in Mechanicsburg by Agatha.
12. Klaus's wife—Not on familiar terms with Gil; is in Skifander.

I'm thinking along a different line, now. "What does Gil's party need?" Supposing that Prof. Foglio intends to have Gil spend time in the castle without Agatha, he needs a guide. That would leave just the inmates and Zola as options. Go Willll-helm, go Willll-helm!! --DryBrook 14:48, 10 February 2009 (UTC)